Talk:Dependent territory

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UN list of dependent territories[edit]

User:Chipmunkdavis, User:Roger 8 Roger, User:Xevres, User:Wee Curry Monster My addition of the United Nations list of non-self-governing territories was reverted and object of a dispute. We should discuss whether to add it or remove it or something else.

Although there is a stand-alone page for it, the practice is prevalent to mirror some content of subtopics in the relevant pages. Therefore, I don't think my succinct table is redundant. In fact, I think omitting said information from this page is less than ideal, because it is essential information to the subject of the page. There may be text indicating that a dependent territory is on the UN list but it would be more practical and better format to have a separate table of said list as well. Thinker78 (talk) 21:42, 9 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Mirroring the table is redundant. We don't eg. have the US State Department list of dependent territories. CMD (talk) 00:52, 10 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm puzzled by the section added above, aimed as it is toward a bunch of seasoned editors, it seems to me to violate WP:DTTR and aimed to browbeat your fellow editors. I'm sure that I may have misconstrued your motives but felt it important to bring to your attention, ie even if that were not your intention it rather frames your approach to comments. To add to the discussion, I am mildly in favour of the addition of that table but I also recognise the strong arguments against it; namely that is to some extent redundant and incomplete. As such I'm not inclined to press for inclusion, rather suggesting that a more rounded and complete approach is required. As currently formulated I'm not in favour of inclusion but I would be prepared to consider a constructive proposal that addresses the concerns presented. WCMemail 17:16, 11 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Argumentum ad verecundiam. I have been in Wikipedia long enough to know that senior editors are not perfect (btw, I did not use a template). But tbh before posting the policies I was going to report the page to the edit warring noticeboard to be analyzed by editors more experienced about the issue. I decided against and instead just post the aforementioned thread that generated irk. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 04:40, 12 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Chipmunkdavis maybe we should, as the US is a world power. I would understand if we don't have 10 lists of 10 different countries or organizations in this page. But it may be a good idea to include a select few of the most notable ones and make mention of others. After all, how was the current list compiled? Does it pick and choose items to include, does it have consistency? Thinker78 (talk) 20:49, 14 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It was compiled by consensus, and does have consistency. There are always questions around the system (as there are with all similar topics), however these are more noticeable here as a reflection of the topic itself, which has always somewhat of a term of convenience. CMD (talk) 01:16, 15 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Comment I think we should list the UN list of dependent territories at the top, since this is the official list of dependent territories recognized by the United Nations Special Committee on Decolonization. Then we can add other remaining inhabited dependent territories by country. 2001:8003:9100:2C01:ACFE:7B23:904F:A674 (talk) 04:53, 10 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sounds like a good idea. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 05:52, 10 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Uninhabited territories should be removed though. They aren't country-like dependencies, they don't even have a local government and they have no people to be governed either. 2001:8003:9100:2C01:ACFE:7B23:904F:A674 (talk) 07:18, 10 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The West Bank and Gaza?[edit]

Should this article list the West Bank and Gaza as Dependent Territories? Per the Gaza article: "The territories of Gaza and the West Bank are separated from each other by Israeli territory. Both fell under the jurisdiction of the Palestinian Authority, but the Strip is governed by Hamas, a militant, fundamentalist Islamic organization, which came to power in the last-held elections in 2006." Rxtreme (talk) 19:40, 23 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A dependent territory must be legally external to the metropolitan state, which in turn must exercise control over it. How does this apply? TFD (talk) 19:51, 23 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The West Bank is directly controlled by the State of Palestine, the Gaza Strip is controlled by a rebel militant group (Hamas). Both territories are integral parts of the State of Palestine, they are not dependent territories. 2001:8003:9100:2C01:ACFE:7B23:904F:A674 (talk) 04:39, 10 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Svalbard and Clipperton Island[edit]

I propose the removal of Svalbard and Clipperton Island from the list of dependent territories. Both entities are unincorporated areas of their respective administering state, not dependent territories. A dependent territory should be politically outside its administering state's "country proper", not a part of the "country proper". I also support the removal of Åland in the discussion above. 112.120.10.133 (talk) 12:32, 17 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

All of the territories you mention are already in the "similar entities" section, not the "dependent territories" section. --Lasunncty (talk) 10:16, 22 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
They aren't "similar entities" either. Unincorporated internal areas shouldn't be included in this article at all. 2001:8003:9100:2C01:895F:24B6:B6CE:477E (talk) 03:19, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
They are similar enough. You are being too pedantic. To pretend there is no difference between, say, an island off the coast of mainland France and Clipperton, is unrealistic. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 03:34, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Well, what exactly is the difference between, say, Corsica and Clipperton Island? To me, the only notable difference is that Corsica has a permanent population while Clipperton Island is uninhabited. According to the article overseas France, Clipperton Island is an overseas "state private property" under the direct authority of the French government. In other words, the island is a part of "France proper". It is not a French dependent territory. 2001:8003:9100:2C01:895F:24B6:B6CE:477E (talk) 04:19, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Irrespective of the particular status of Clipperton Island, that is not what private property means. CMD (talk) 06:27, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The IP is confusing two different defintions of unicorporated: (1) not formed into a legal corporation (such as a municiplity) and (2) not included as part of a whole.
While the article they link to uses the first definition, this article uses the second. Under the second definition, an unincorporated territory is "politically outside its administering state's "country proper", not a part of the "country proper"". IOW it has not been incorporated into the country proper. It may or may not have a local government.
TFD (talk) 18:06, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Uninhabited islands and Antarctic claims[edit]

Uninhabited islands are not dependent territories. To be a dependent territory, the entity needs to function like a country, i.e. it should have three key elements: a defined territory, a permanent population, and a functioning local government. Uninhabited islands only have a defined territory and nothing else, they are not dependent territories. It doesn't matter what their administering states call them, they are merely "overseas territories" directly administered by their central governments.

All Antarctic claims are also uninhabited and therefore they are not dependent territories too.

I propose the removal of the following 24 territories and territorial claims from the list of dependent territories:

Uninhabited islands
  1. Akrotiri and Dhekelia (military bases)
  2. Ashmore and Cartier Islands
  3. Bajo Nuevo Bank
  4. Baker Island
  5. Bouvet Island
  6. British Indian Ocean Territory (Chagos Archipelago)
  7. Clipperton Island
  8. Coral Sea Islands
  9. Heard Island and McDonald Islands
  10. Howland Island
  11. Jarvis Island
  12. Johnston Atoll
  13. Kingman Reef
  14. Midway Atoll
  15. Navassa Island
  16. Serranilla Bank
  17. South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands
  18. Wake Island
Antarctic claims
  1. Australian Antarctic Territory
  2. British Antarctic Territory
  3. French Southern and Antarctic Lands
  4. Peter I Island
  5. Queen Maud Land
  6. Ross Dependency

2001:8003:9100:2C01:ACFE:7B23:904F:A674 (talk) 04:00, 10 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The redirect Dependencies and other territories has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 January 31 § Dependencies and other territories until a consensus is reached. Steel1943 (talk) 21:07, 31 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]